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*** Official Longview Lobo Thread - Home of LOBO Nation ***

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  • Originally posted by Quick View Post

    Dub Jester, would even take offense to the aforementioned statement. Plus, as someone who knows Fred on a very, personal level since he was 8 years old and playing on the same football teams from the Jodie McClure Mustangs to the Lobo Freshmen Green team, I definitely have my reservations on that statement.
    Man, I forget that Coach Jester was at Judson a long time. Coached me and you.

    Also, I don't know if people realize it....but Judson produced most of the major RBs Longview has had since Talley.

    The exceptions are Hasty (Foster), Kelly Williams (Foster), Tyler Miller (Forest Park), and Braylynn "Pig" Anthony (Foster).

    Talley, Vondrell, McCray, Tory White, Meredith etc all went to Judson.

    It's pretty rare that you see a notable QB or RB come out of Forest Park.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JoeC View Post
      I can’t speak to this Graves kid as I have not had the luxury of seeing him perform. But with the descriptives and comparatives being tossed around, this cat must be bad to the bone.

      As for Fred, I know everybody is high on him and rightfully so. I am to. In fact, I put him and Vondrell at 1 and 2 positioned to your likeness. But this is only because they had a lengthy career running the ball clad in the green and white. But I still say, IMO, the greatest, most elusive and dynamic running back to ever don the green and white, was Clifford Ward. This cat was a mixture of O.J. Simpson, Gayle Sayers and Barry Sanders all neatly rolled into one. For you youngsters, you’d probably get a better idea if I said Donnie Centers, Fred Talley and Aaron Johnson in respect to speed, vision and elusiveness all rolled into one. The dude (CW) was absolutely jaw-dropping dazzling! He didn’t just break ankles, he severed them. Ask anybody that saw him play. He was far beyond extraordinary. I am still waiting on a running back of his caliber to come along but without his troubles. Who knows maybe this Graves kid fits the bill. I damn sure hope so.
      You'll get different answers on the goat RB conversations.

      I've always been a Vondrell guy. People like geetee will say Talley (I think most Lobo fans consider it being Talley...he's a very close 2 on my list), most of the older generation like yourself say it's Cliff Ward or Joe Johnson. I know
      85lobooldschool
      Varsity
      85lobooldschool loves him some Joe Johnson. Some say it's Babydoo Hunter, there's a crowd out there that will argue up and down that it's McCray....

      The perks of having a program with maybe the strongest RB history/tradition in the state. If you're Coach Wilson, you've seen it all.

      Seem like many have maybe written of Taylor Tatum's potential of being in goat conversation by the end of his career. Major mistake.

      Comment


      • WP4L™
        All-World
        WP4L™ thing about Tatum is he won't get the touches. Especially if Longview continues to be in 💩 districts and the horses coming behind him. I dunno man we'll see over next 2 years. You gotta factor in Hale in all of this.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by WP4L™ View Post
          You'll get different answers on the goat RB conversations.

          I've always been a Vondrell guy. People like geetee will say Talley (I think most Lobo fans consider it being Talley...he's a very close 2 on my list), most of the older generation like yourself say it's Cliff Ward or Joe Johnson. I know
          85lobooldschool
          Varsity
          85lobooldschool loves him some Joe Johnson. Some say it's Babydoo Hunter, there's a crowd out there that will argue up and down that it's McCray....

          The perks of having a program with maybe the strongest RB history/tradition in the state. If you're Coach Wilson, you've seen it all.

          Seem like many have maybe written of Taylor Tatum's potential of being in goat conversation by the end of his career. Major mistake.
          First, pay close attention to what I said, I gave top billing status to Fred and Vondrell. More than anything else, this is based on longevity as this is, at its core, a numbers game. Of course, this in no way implies that talent and skills are less relevant. To the contrary. What it does say is that neither of these young men had the vision, athleticism and slashing running style of Clifford Ward.

          I can say a few words - a short sentence that will put Clifford Ward in a whole new perspective: “He played as a freshman on a varsity football team coached by Doug Cox.” Not only did he play, he played during an era when the passing game was for the most part, near non existent, with 8 to 9 in the box geared to stop him yet he had defenses on their heels every time he touched the ball. This was mostly seniors mind you and during a time when defenses specialized in stopping the run.

          I remember it well, like yesterday, the final game of the 1978 season Lobos against cross-town rival Pine Tree. Rumors abound, “we have a secret weapon, a freshman”, his name...Clifford Ward. The anticipation was all a buzz and he did not disappoint. In fact, the first time he touched the ball he sent Longview’s fan base into an absolute frenzy. He was everything that we’d heard about him and more. He was scintillating! The dude was electric and generated enough energy to power a city block. I had never seen anything like him before or since. Bar none! His vision and slashing running style was insane to the point, many of us truly believed that this kid actually had eyes in the back of his head.

          His troubles. The irony in looking back is that the thing that brought an end to his career and Lobo fame is now legal in many U.S. states.

          The Top Lobo Greats:
          Clifford Ward will probably never be mentioned in the same breath with other Lobo notables like Fred, Vondrell, Joe, Babydoo and Tyler. But this has more to do with longevity, stats and time than athletic capability. As time moves forward, it does not favor old-schoolers with respect to the biases of the now generation. But this is only because most of the now gens did not have the luxury of seeing the Dinky Edwards’, Eric ******’s and the Clifford Ward’s perform on the gridiron.

          You don’t have to take my word for it. But do know that I’ve seen them all and again, I’ve never seen anything the likes of Clifford Ward before or since. The closest was Tyler but not even he possessed the complete package of Clifford Ward.

          The kids nowadays don’t exemplify the vision and slashing running style of running backs back in the day. Unfortunately, with all of the distraction today, many are just not hardcore students of the game. Just keeping it real, Tatum does not embody this vision and slashing running style. Of course, he’s still young (but older than Clifford Ward was). Only time will tell whether he’s earned a seat amongst the All-Time Lobo Greats.
          Last edited by JoeC; 10-22-2021, 01:16 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JoeC View Post
            I can’t speak to this Graves kid as I have not had the luxury of seeing him perform. But with the descriptives and comparatives being tossed around, this cat must be bad to the bone.

            As for Fred, I know everybody is high on him and rightfully so. I am to. In fact, I put him and Vondrell at 1 and 2 positioned to your likeness. But this is only because they had a lengthy career running the ball clad in the green and white. But I still say, IMO, the greatest, most elusive and dynamic running back to ever don the green and white, was Clifford Ward. This cat was a mixture of O.J. Simpson, Gayle Sayers and Barry Sanders all neatly rolled into one. For you youngsters, you’d probably get a better idea if I said Donnie Centers, Fred Talley and Aaron Johnson in respect to speed, vision and elusiveness all rolled into one. The dude (CW) was absolutely jaw-dropping dazzling! He didn’t just break ankles, he severed them. Ask anybody that saw him play. He was far beyond extraordinary. I am still waiting on a running back of his caliber to come along but without his troubles. Who knows maybe this Graves kid fits the bill. I damn sure hope so.
            I agree totally! And I saw him every game he played! If somebody could find the film of the game at Pine Tree when Ward was a freshman (Last game of the season he was brought up to the Varsity), everybody could see what JoeC and I are talking about!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by WP4L™ View Post
              Man, I forget that Coach Jester was at Judson a long time. Coached me and you.

              Also, I don't know if people realize it....but Judson produced most of the major RBs Longview has had since Talley.

              The exceptions are Hasty (Foster), Kelly Williams (Foster), Tyler Miller (Forest Park), and Braylynn "Pig" Anthony (Foster).

              Talley, Vondrell, McCray, Tory White, Meredith etc all went to Judson.

              It's pretty rare that you see a notable QB or RB come out of Forest Park.
              Clifford Ward came out of Forest Park.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JoeC View Post

                First, pay close attention to what I said, I gave top billing status to Fred and Vondrell. More than anything else, this is based on longevity as this is, at its core, a numbers game. Of course, this in no way implies that talent and skills are less relevant. To the contrary. What it does say is that neither of these young men had the vision, athleticism and slashing running style of Clifford Ward.

                I can say a few words - a short sentence that will put Clifford Ward in a whole new perspective: “He played as a freshman on a varsity football team coached by Doug Cox.” Not only did he play, he played during an era when the passing game was for the most part, near non existent, with 8 to 9 in the box geared to stop him yet he had defenses on their heels every time he touched the ball. This was mostly seniors mind you and during a time when defenses specialized in stopping the run.

                I remember it well, like yesterday, the final game of the 1978 season Lobos against cross-town rival Pine Tree. Rumors abound, “we have a secret weapon, a freshman”, his name...Clifford Ward. The anticipation was all a buzz and he did not disappoint. In fact, the first time he touched the ball he sent Longview’s fan base into an absolute frenzy. He was everything that we’d heard about him and more. He was scintillating! The dude was electric and generated enough energy to power a city block. I had never seen anything like him before or since. Bar none! His vision and slashing running style was insane to the point, many of us truly believed that this kid actually had eyes in the back of his head.

                His troubles. The irony in looking back is that the thing that brought an end to his career and Lobo fame is now legal in many U.S. states.

                The Top Lobo Greats:
                Clifford Ward will probably never be mentioned in the same breath with other Lobo notables like Fred, Vondrell, Joe, Babydoo and Tyler. But this has more to do with longevity, stats and time than athletic capability. As time moves forward, it does not favor old-schoolers with respect to the biases of the now generation. But this is only because most of the now gens did not have the luxury of seeing the Dinky Edwards’, Eric ******’s and the Clifford Ward’s perform on the gridiron.

                You don’t have to take my word for it. But do know that I’ve seen them all and again, I’ve never seen anything the likes of Clifford Ward before or since. The closest was Tyler but not even he possessed the complete package of Clifford Ward.

                The kids nowadays don’t exemplify the vision and slashing running style of running backs back in the day. Unfortunately, with all of the distraction today, many are just not hardcore students of the game. Just keeping it real, Tatum does not embody this vision and slashing running style. Of course, he’s still young (but older than Clifford Ward was). Only time will tell whether he’s earned a seat amongst the All-Time Lobo Greats.
                I never saw Clifford play. Fred was not a slasher, but he had second level vision with 10.4 hundred meter speed. Not to mention he was a very heady football player. You can sell me on the athleticism, but Clifford having better vision than Fred???

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JoeC View Post

                  First, pay close attention to what I said, I gave top billing status to Fred and Vondrell. More than anything else, this is based on longevity as this is, at its core, a numbers game. Of course, this in no way implies that talent and skills are less relevant. To the contrary. What it does say is that neither of these young men had the vision, athleticism and slashing running style of Clifford Ward.

                  I can say a few words - a short sentence that will put Clifford Ward in a whole new perspective: “He played as a freshman on a varsity football team coached by Doug Cox.” Not only did he play, he played during an era when the passing game was for the most part, near non existent, with 8 to 9 in the box geared to stop him yet he had defenses on their heels every time he touched the ball. This was mostly seniors mind you and during a time when defenses specialized in stopping the run.

                  I remember it well, like yesterday, the final game of the 1978 season Lobos against cross-town rival Pine Tree. Rumors abound, “we have a secret weapon, a freshman”, his name...Clifford Ward. The anticipation was all a buzz and he did not disappoint. In fact, the first time he touched the ball he sent Longview’s fan base into an absolute frenzy. He was everything that we’d heard about him and more. He was scintillating! The dude was electric and generated enough energy to power a city block. I had never seen anything like him before or since. Bar none! His vision and slashing running style was insane to the point, many of us truly believed that this kid actually had eyes in the back of his head.

                  His troubles. The irony in looking back is that the thing that brought an end to his career and Lobo fame is now legal in many U.S. states.

                  The Top Lobo Greats:
                  Clifford Ward will probably never be mentioned in the same breath with other Lobo notables like Fred, Vondrell, Joe, Babydoo and Tyler. But this has more to do with longevity, stats and time than athletic capability. As time moves forward, it does not favor old-schoolers with respect to the biases of the now generation. But this is only because most of the now gens did not have the luxury of seeing the Dinky Edwards’, Eric ******’s and the Clifford Ward’s perform on the gridiron.

                  You don’t have to take my word for it. But do know that I’ve seen them all and again, I’ve never seen anything the likes of Clifford Ward before or since. The closest was Tyler but not even he possessed the complete package of Clifford Ward.

                  The kids nowadays don’t exemplify the vision and slashing running style of running backs back in the day. Unfortunately, with all of the distraction today, many are just not hardcore students of the game. Just keeping it real, Tatum does not embody this vision and slashing running style. Of course, he’s still young (but older than Clifford Ward was). Only time will tell whether he’s earned a seat amongst the All-Time Lobo Greats.
                  Totally agree again!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Alpha_Dawg1 View Post

                    I never saw Clifford play. Fred was not a slasher, but he had second level vision with 10.4 hundred meter speed. Not to mention he was a very heady football player. You can sell me on the athleticism, but Clifford having better vision than Fred???
                    YES he did!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by oldetexfan View Post

                      YES he did!
                      Better vision than this guy here?

                      https://youtu.be/smyvhkkKOnQ?t=1296
                      https://youtu.be/788zf7nmssU?t=5

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by GeeTee View Post
                        WP4L™
                        All-World
                        WP4L™ thing about Tatum is he won't get the touches. Especially if Longview continues to be in 💩 districts and the horses coming behind him. I dunno man we'll see over next 2 years. You gotta factor in Hale in all of this.
                        Solid point. I've always said that Tatum wasn't gonna break any records (outside of maybe career TDs). And if he did....wow.

                        Reason being is he'll be sharing carries with the likes of Alijah Johnson/Kelvin Washington/Bolden/Parker and probably others at some point in his career.

                        Then you factor in the passing potentials of Tutt/Rowe....the various pass catchers headlined by Hale....it'll be hard for Tatum to break any yardage records. Tatum himself is also a nice receiver so, his yards won't all come from rushing.

                        That's why I'll judge him by what he accomplishes whenever he does get the touches. I think he'll be in the conversation when it's all said and done. We may not consider him THE goat but he'll definitely be in the conversation. He already looks more advanced than Vondrell and McCray at the same age....and I haven't seen a better pass catching back. These little catches in the flats and screens are one thing but he also has strong downfield high pointing ability that you don't always see in RBs.

                        I think he takes off when we return from the Bye.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Alpha_Dawg1 View Post
                          Yep...that guy. Here’s the thing, we saw Fred. Here’s the other thing, we saw Clifford Ward too. Fred was a great back. You can’t take anything away from him but you can sure add to him and that would be Clifford Ward. Like I said and what anyone would tell you that actually saw them both, Fred was a special combination of athleticism and speed but Clifford Ward, he was one of those rarities that usually comes along once in a lifetime. I seriously hope not as I’d love to see a Lobo running back of his caliber with a strong supporting cast.

                          If you didn’t see him play, you won’t quite understand. Most importantly, there’s nothing I can say that’l create a vision of him in your mind. Again, he was the best I’ve ever seen to don that green and white uniform and to strap on that Rockin L helmet.

                          Comment


                          • I always heard bout Donnie Centers as possibly being the best ever to put on the Lobo gear. But I'ma throw this name in the hat...Bobby Taylor! When we get into the discussion of greatest athlete...not just football but overall all sports...there's nobody better than Bobby. That's why I say Hale has a good damn shot to be the greatest Lobo ever. But I'm waiting on him to do it on the track same way he dominates basketball and football. Bobby's accomplishments are unmatched right now.

                            Comment


                            • any stream for hp vs tyler

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by GeeTee View Post
                                I always heard bout Donnie Centers as possibly being the best ever to put on the Lobo gear. But I'ma throw this name in the hat...Bobby Taylor! When we get into the discussion of greatest athlete...not just football but overall all sports...there's nobody better than Bobby. That's why I say Hale has a good damn shot to be the greatest Lobo ever. But I'm waiting on him to do it on the track same way he dominates basketball and football. Bobby's accomplishments are unmatched right now.
                                I think Hale can still make some noise in track.

                                Getting that basketball ring would be a huge challenge though. A lot has changed in TX since 1992 in the basketball landscape...not to mention...that 92 team was just so good. I don't think Bobby was the best on the team tbh.

                                Comment

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