Public School vs Private School

[pied]

Just about the athletes.
So, what is it that has MD year in and year out as a top team in the country? The size of the area they get kids from, the quality of the kids (athletically) has been mentioned (socal), we seem to imply they don't recruit, but there are scholarships, and we don't deny they give scholarships for academics, right? Is the idea that, instead of moving to be in the school of choice, they just go there? And it just happens that they are athletically gifted? Of course, it has been mentioned that a lot of money is spent on facilities and coaching (implied even more than in Texas), so athletics are obviously an important part of MD. Do they make a lot of money off the program?
Why are they so much better than everyone else?

lol (at the first statement)


That's a good question and one that people could ask so many times of so many teams. I can't say with 100% certainty since I don't really follow them super closely.

I'd also question year in and year out. They appear to have a traditional VERY good program. It also appears they really weren't on the national scene from ~'98 to ~15. Not sure why, other programs got better? They changed focus?


The question the other way is just as valid imo. Why has SLC been in the state spotlight for 20 years and national spotlight for a good portion of that? Compared to their Tarrant County counterparts. Grapevine/Colleyveille/Keller/Hurts/Euless/Trophy Club/etc. Trinity had a GREAT run for a time, but that appears to be over, for now. Same questions for Allen in Colling County. Or for Katy, in whatever county/ies they are in.

The answers, I think, are much more complex than "they recruit the nation" or even "they recruit the whole LA area". Changes in coaches, school leaders, demographics, social situations, financial situations all play a part.



FYI - an interesting site.

https://www.materdeifootball.net/history/

[FBFan]

There is so much funny about this post I wonder if you’re for real or live back in the 50s?

Why discount talking about Texas schools recruiting or having players move in based on reputation when talking about the same for other schools?

Texas football is so competitive based on what? If we’ve learned anything this year is that the Haves, have, and the non-haves don’t.

The average score in the third round of (6A)playoffs was 43-18.

The average score in the fourth round of (6A)playoffs was 44-19.

The average score in the fifth round of (6A) playoffs was 40-21.

The winning team won by dang near three TDs in what should have been the most competitive time of year.

I think it's a great point about back in the 50's. Back in the 50's on a Friday night, high school football in Texas was the hottest ticket around. Since then small town life has been upended by the mechanization of farming, big box stores, suburbanization, etc. etc. Things aren't the same, but they are still really good. What we see now, is still a great product, but we only get glimpses of what it used to be. I even remember seeing a Plano-Plano East game before Plano added a third school. What an awesome environment, alas it is no more. The game, and the experience today are very different from before. I would argue they are still integral to the fabric of the state because of the bonds communities pass that invest in the facilities. The DIII National Championship is at MISD stadium for crying out loud.

In my opinion, most of the good teams from the last thirty years were "new growth" suburbs. (Right now, Prosper is at the top of my mind. Too bad they opened a second high school.) No doubt in some places their reputation was/is such that athletes move into the district because of the football team. This has gone on for years, and if they move early enough it usually isn't a problem. When they move after their sophomore, or junior year is when they get stuck in DEC meetings. Sometimes District Committees are lenient, and sometimes they are not. These controversies go back years: Brownwood, Permian, Stephenville, Celina, Aledo, Allen, so on and so forth.

High school football here is layered like a cake. Some schools make up the elite, some are really good, some are good, average, bad, terrible etc. If you are a 6A State Champion, you had two scrimmages, played 16 games, have a home stadium of 10k plus, probably have an indoor facility, have a head coach that makes around 100K a year, and have 75+ players on your varsity. The catch is that there are a lot of good, average, and bad teams that have this too.

Housing prices are skyrocketing and it's a lot more complicated to move these days. I find myself wondering how this will affect things.

[ChapDad]

lol (at the first statement)


That's a good question and one that people could ask so many times of so many teams. I can't say with 100% certainty since I don't really follow them super closely.

I'd also question year in and year out. They appear to have a traditional VERY good program. It also appears they really weren't on the national scene from ~'98 to ~15. Not sure why, other programs got better? They changed focus?


The question the other way is just as valid imo. Why has SLC been in the state spotlight for 20 years and national spotlight for a good portion of that? Compared to their Tarrant County counterparts. Grapevine/Colleyveille/Keller/Hurts/Euless/Trophy Club/etc. Trinity had a GREAT run for a time, but that appears to be over, for now. Same questions for Allen in Colling County. Or for Katy, in whatever county/ies they are in.

The answers, I think, are much more complex than "they recruit the nation" or even "they recruit the whole LA area". Changes in coaches, school leaders, demographics, social situations, financial situations all play a part.



FYI - an interesting site.

https://www.materdeifootball.net/history/

Katy won a state championship in 2020! I don't see how anyone can call their historic run over so quickly. They lost 1 game all year in 2021 to an undefeated state champion. The only 6A schools with more recent titles are Westlake and North Shore.

[ChapDad]

I think that’s a great couple of points and absolutely fair. FBFan seems to be separating the two suggesting, “That's another topic for another day…”. Why not discuss it in a thread about public vs. private schools?

Regarding the vans full of kids at MD, do you care about the ones who are not athletes? Many private schools offer vans to pick up students that live in certain areas, as well as helping to arrange car pools. We did that the first three years my daughter was in school(carpool, not vans). I know of families that attend Colleyville Covenant that rode from a fair distance in a school van. The same at Grapevine Faith. I can say with certainty a small school in Flower Mound, that only goes through elementary school, that ran a van to Coppell for the same reason.

It wouldn’t surprise me that many many schools have van programs in place, the overwhelming majority you’ve never heard of. It also wouldn’t surprise me if Mater Dei has a similar service for their ~2,000 students. It sounds better for a story that the vans are strictly for football recruits but that doesn’t sound too likely to me.

If we were discussing national quiz bowl rankings then I would care just as much about the non athletes. But since this discussion is about football, it's pretty much about the athletes.

[pied]

Katy won a state championship in 2020! I don't see how anyone can call their historic run over so quickly. They lost 1 game all year in 2021 to an undefeated state champion. The only 6A schools with more recent titles are Westlake and North Shore.

Fair, the point was more why are certain teams good vs. some of the others in their area. They are certainly a model of consistency for some time!

[pied]

If we were discussing national quiz bowl rankings then I would care just as much about the non athletes. But since this discussion is about football, it's pretty much about the athletes.

Do you care that they are in the van with the quiz bowl team as well? FYI their Academic Decathalon team appears to be pretty good.

Congratulations to the Academic Decathlon team!
So Cal Private Schools Regional Champions

75 Individual Medals

Top Individual Overall Score:
Gold - Teresa Pham

[pied]

I think it's a great point about back in the 50's. Back in the 50's on a Friday night, high school football in Texas was the hottest ticket around. Since then small town life has been upended by the mechanization of farming, big box stores, suburbanization, etc. etc. Things aren't the same, but they are still really good. What we see now, is still a great product, but we only get glimpses of what it used to be. I even remember seeing a Plano-Plano East game before Plano added a third school. What an awesome environment, alas it is no more. The game, and the experience today are very different from before. I would argue they are still integral to the fabric of the state because of the bonds communities pass that invest in the facilities. The DIII National Championship is at MISD stadium for crying out loud.

In my opinion, most of the good teams from the last thirty years were "new growth" suburbs. (Right now, Prosper is at the top of my mind. Too bad they opened a second high school.) No doubt in some places their reputation was/is such that athletes move into the district because of the football team. This has gone on for years, and if they move early enough it usually isn't a problem. When they move after their sophomore, or junior year is when they get stuck in DEC meetings. Sometimes District Committees are lenient, and sometimes they are not. These controversies go back years: Brownwood, Permian, Stephenville, Celina, Aledo, Allen, so on and so forth.

High school football here is layered like a cake. Some schools make up the elite, some are really good, some are good, average, bad, terrible etc. If you are a 6A State Champion, you had two scrimmages, played 16 games, have a home stadium of 10k plus, probably have an indoor facility, have a head coach that makes around 100K a year, and have 75+ players on your varsity. The catch is that there are a lot of good, average, and bad teams that have this too.

Housing prices are skyrocketing and it's a lot more complicated to move these days. I find myself wondering how this will affect things.

Lots of good points. I think we all look back to whatever time and think "those were the good old days." The funny thing is, that the time frame changes based on who you're talking to. I was in HS from the mid to late 80s and went to more games than I can count during the 90s. Those times were GREAT for HS football in the state and you can't convince me otherwise.

My father in law told me about the cheating scandals in the 50s/60s. The stories seem to be similar, just the locations have changed.

If I'm being honest, I can't name all the 6A schools in DFQ anymore. To your point, they seem to be adding more and more every year. My kid's soccer teammate goes to Prosper and his older sister is graduating from Rock Hill this spring. That was the first I'd heard of that school.

[slcdragonfan]

Lots of good points. I think we all look back to whatever time and think "those were the good old days." The funny thing is, that the time frame changes based on who you're talking to. I was in HS from the mid to late 80s and went to more games than I can count during the 90s. Those times were GREAT for HS football in the state and you can't convince me otherwise.

My father in law told me about the cheating scandals in the 50s/60s. The stories seem to be similar, just the locations have changed.

If I'm being honest, I can't name all the 6A schools in DFQ anymore. To your point, they seem to be adding more and more every year. My kid's soccer teammate goes to Prosper and his older sister is graduating from Rock Hill this spring. That was the first I'd heard of that school.

And 40's and 30's and....I remember one story about a HS Coach going to a farm and asking a kid to play for him....who had already graduated! (50's). Some things have changed maybe even for the better.

[fan1955]

even in the public school although there are attempts, you will not have even opportunity for all until the demographics are balanced. there will always be the haves and the ones that do not have. but even when the $$$ are even there will still be in equality those differences may be lessened by $$$$ but there will still be other things to make it different

[SAC17]

even in the public school although there are attempts, you will not have even opportunity for all until the demographics are balanced. there will always be the haves and the ones that do not have. but even when the $$$ are even there will still be in equality those differences may be lessened by $$$$ but there will still be other things to make it different

But what is equality? Is it having the opportunity to at least try out for a team? Or is it having an equal amount of representation of all races in all education programs? I’ve held the belief that different races are generally better suited or good at different activities. If you go to a school with a noticeable Asian population those kids will most likely have the highest grades and excel at orchestra and band. A school with a lot of black kids will be more athletic. Mexican kids are generally good at soccer. Polynesians are pretty much the reason why California is so good at football. And white people are sort of a anomaly to me as they tend to be decently good at most things.

If we’re talking about educators that favor some students over others that a different story.

[JGTexasTough]

I think it's a topic for every day.

Guys... Five offensive players for Westlake made the All-American team. Yes, five out of eleven offensive starters. You can defend it all you want, but that doesn't happen organically and it's not because Todd Dodge is the world's best player developer. And it definitely doesn't happen in an area like that. Your bragging about the "#2 team in the nation" being homegrown and only drawing from a population of 37k isn't making the argument you think it is. It's the exact opposite, actually. Boundaries and attendance zones don't mean nearly as much when All-American caliber players are moving into it. Does it make it more difficult? Sure. But Allen had 75 football players transfer into the district between 2013 and 2017. How do those things happen?

A private school with no boundaries pulling from a 20 million metro area is a bigger advantage than whatever school in Texas that benefits from transfers. Same ol same with the Cali fans. "but but Allen had 75 football transfers in 4 years." Yea we know and there's countless threads on that. Doesn't change the fact that the CIF lets the privates have free range but penalize the public schools in the same area. Just own up to it and stop pointing fingers.

[MGoBlue]

A private school with no boundaries pulling from a 20 million metro area is a bigger advantage than whatever school in Texas that benefits from transfers. Same ol same with the Cali fans. "but but Allen had 75 football transfers in 4 years." Yea we know and there's countless threads on that. Doesn't change the fact that the CIF lets the privates have free range but penalize the public schools in the same area. Just own up to it and stop pointing fingers.

I used to live in San Diego. The reason private schools have so many athletes is the public schools are absolutely terrible in California. Parents do everything they can to send their kids to private schools in California.

[SAC17]

I used to live in San Diego. The reason private schools have so many athletes is the public schools are absolutely terrible in California. Parents do everything they can to send their kids to private schools in California.

When it comes to many state run programs, California is a conglomerate mess. Texas is right there with them as far as education goes. Texas kids are pretty hopeless as well.

[Rgvfb]

When it comes to many state run programs, California is a conglomerate mess. Texas is right there with them as far as education goes. Texas kids are pretty hopeless as well.

yep when it comes to public schools theyre bad, mostly due to local governments tho. In the rgv the charter schools like idea “public” schools and south texas isd chaters get alot better funding than your regular public school despite all being paid for with our tax payer money.

chsrter schools

[FBFan]

To me charter schools pose a bigger threat to high school football in Texas than private schools. Private schools will never have the resources public schools have, they won't even be at the level of the "bad" public schools. For that matter Roger Federer could bank roll IMG (Florida, I know) and they still couldn't match the consistency of state funding.

However, charter schools, can get equal, or greater funding from the state, and that would change things. Something like Deion's Prime Time Academy deal could be a problem. I believe Louisiana has a lot of this. Someone check me on that.

Another problem I see is if property taxes are frozen, which could happen. California's problems are becoming our problems right? (And I don't mean how people vote) There is a housing shortage, lots of people are moving in, property values are rapidly rising, and lawmakers could freeze property taxes so us townies can still afford to live here. They did it years ago in California, and it could happen here. Over time, the money schools get can't keep up with inflation, and there go the public schools.

Too much negativity on my post, sorry lol. Can't we get back to griping about Jimmy lying about his address his junior year to be on the better football team down the road?