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  • #46
    Originally posted by pied View Post

    I agree and disagree with some of your points. Schools request to play in higher divisions every cycle. Austin LBJ is a notable example, competitive in 4A, but will play in 5A the next two years with a smaller enrollment.

    Highland Park will be in 6A with an enrollment of 2,245.5 was just above the 6A cutoff line of 2,225. They will be in the same classification as Allen - 6,959.

    When 7A comes around, it very may well exclude "smaller" schools like SLC and WL. I don't think there are many here that would disagree that those teams can compete year in and year out with the biggest and best. I can assure you that people will consider 7A better than 6A, just like we do today.

    If someone is afraid of a stigma, then opt in.
    these aren't great examples. HP most realignments ends up as a big 5A, sometimes it breaks against them and they end up a little 6A. I really think they are more happy kicking butt in 5A as they don't opt-up when they are placed in 5A.

    Most opt-ups are because of sister schools in the same ISD or because of geography they get a much more local district rather than looking for a more prestigious level. LBJ has some of both aspects at work perhaps in playing up but I don't think its primarily because they are too good for 4A. They are the smallest AISD school and in 4A they end up playing a schedule with a lot of rural teams and very few local ones.

    As for 7A, it likely grabs WL and SLC at least initially. WL might eventually fall out of the top N in enrollment as more and more growth happens in some fast growing areas of the state. WL like HP is near stable enrollment with some y2y variation. If that happens one would assume an opt-up would be available. Opting up would probably involve looking at the likely district alignment as much or maybe more than the prestige aspect. Folks on the future 7A board would be chauvinistic about big boy 7A but the school board and AD probably would care less about what those posters think and more about what happens each week with travel and competition. If the local comp was the dregs of the current 6A and the 7A travel isn't too enormous then maybe they opt up. If opting up means you get LT but also have in-district games in San Antonio, the Valley, and maybe the Permian Basin then maybe you pass on sitting in traffic that many Fridays and play LT pre-district.

    I don't get how this is really not just 7A with opt-ups. Yes you get to toss out the Plano schools and possibly you get to ignore the entire western part of the state. But what if the big EP and Valley schools want in. You end up with what people say is broken about a small 7A conf in that there is a lot of travel..

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    • #47
      Originally posted by pied View Post
      Schools are too big(Allen), some big schools aren't competitive nor will they ever be, some smaller schools have big ambition (Aledo/Carthage), we have too many teams competing in the largest classifications and no real title(Westlake/Northshore), should I even mention private schools?
      Aledo wouldnt opt up. There is no upside. I am one that believes enrollment matters.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by aledoalumni View Post
        Aledo wouldnt opt up. There is no upside. I am one that believes enrollment matters.
        Figured. We all know Aledo's scared to play the big teams.

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        • #49
          Why not use the formula 5A and below use? It seems to work by grouping schools with similar enrollments.
          Last edited by MGoBlue; 12-23-2021, 11:16 AM.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by pied View Post
            Schools are too big(Allen), some big schools aren't competitive nor will they ever be, some smaller schools have big ambition (Aledo/Carthage), we have too many teams competing in the largest classifications and no real title(Westlake/Northshore), should I even mention private schools?

            There is a lot right about the structure and a lot wrong about it. Started thinking about this watching almost every round of playoffs be a rout (average 2-3 TD victory).

            There isn't a formula for success in Texas, but most would agree, being bigger opposed to smaller is usually better. People complain about the giants, but some of the better teams arguably aren't close to being the largest, Westlake and Southlake come to mind off the top of my head, but certainly there are others.

            What if we had an opt in "Open Class" You could do it for football or basketball or both. I think most of the top teams and districts would want to compete, but that's just a guess. There are some schools that are big, that are never competitive, I'm looking at you El Paso and the Valley. Some schools demographics might have changed and competing in football isn't high on the priority list any longer and although bigger than many other schools might find it a better fit outside the typical power houses.

            If you get 64 teams, great! 6 weeks of playoffs for EVERYONE. Let's say you get north of there up to 128. Cut the regular season short by a week and have a 7 round playoff.


            Lots to vet, and will NEVER happen, but maybe it should?!?


            Why even postulate this?
            The UIL will go for this the same day they allow dogs to run track.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by pied View Post

              Figured. We all know Aledo's scared to play the big teams.
              You know we played Denton Guyer and Cedar Hill recently the years they went to state right? Had a chance to beat both at the end. And I've been asking for a Southlake game for awhile now. But why would we put our kids at a disadvantage and opt up? Its just not realistic. There is literally no upside to it.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by pied View Post

                Huh? We have six classifications (7 if you include 6 man, and 13 champions. (Not including the plethora of private school titles)


                How on earth does having one more diminish that. In ~2-4 years will you say the same when we have 7A?
                I'm ok with adding classifications as we add more schools and based on student enrollment...just not for intentionally creating weaker classifications so people can get participation trophies.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by thechief View Post

                  I'm ok with adding classifications as we add more schools and based on student enrollment...just not for intentionally creating weaker classifications so people can get participation trophies.

                  Let me ask you what the point of more classifications and the results are? To intentionally create a stronger classification, leaving the other weaker and have more titles to give out. (15 vs. the current amount of 13)



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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by aledoalumni View Post

                    You know we played Denton Guyer and Cedar Hill recently the years they went to state right? Had a chance to beat both at the end. And I've been asking for a Southlake game for awhile now. But why would we put our kids at a disadvantage and opt up? Its just not realistic. There is literally no upside to it.


                    Of course I do. I think there's a reason they play those big teams, even if you say they are at a disadvantage. I also think they could be competitive.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by stangbacker View Post

                      Why even postulate this?
                      The UIL will go for this the same day they allow dogs to run track.


                      because it's the offseason.

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                      • #56
                        So if you have an open div as has been proposed for the crem a la crem. they they play each other with open dates to fit in other open div type schools like IMG, Mater Dia, to name a few. Is that what we are discussing or just a mini division who want to play each other as they do not want to wait to be challenged until the SC game?

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by fan1955 View Post
                          So if you have an open div as has been proposed for the crem a la crem. they they play each other with open dates to fit in other open div type schools like IMG, Mater Dia, to name a few. Is that what we are discussing or just a mini division who want to play each other as they do not want to wait to be challenged until the SC game?

                          That's a VERY good question, and one that I don't have great answers for.

                          What I would see is that you have roughly the same amount of teams. The VAST majority would be 6A teams and probably those from the city burbs. So the same number of teams need the same number of games as you do now. Open Division teams would probably want to schedule mostly the teams, but there is certainly room to have rivals continue to play and fill in the gaps or invite OOS competition or head somewhere else if they like the deal presented.

                          Depending on the number of teams, everyone makes the playoffs and the length just depends on the rough number. If you have 64, then you'd have 6 rounds of playoffs and need ten games. If you had ~100-128 teams you'd have 7 rounds of playoffs.

                          To be candid, most top ranked teams, rarely play 2 tough games(for them) a year before the latter playoff games.

                          Let's look at the finalists.

                          Duncanville - Mater Dei, DeSoto, do we count SOC?
                          Northshore - Westfiled, Atascocita
                          Westlake - None (just kidding Lake Travis guys )
                          Guyer - Atascocita, Allen. do we count Ryan?

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by pied View Post


                            That's a VERY good question, and one that I don't have great answers for.

                            What I would see is that you have roughly the same amount of teams. The VAST majority would be 6A teams and probably those from the city burbs. So the same number of teams need the same number of games as you do now. Open Division teams would probably want to schedule mostly the teams, but there is certainly room to have rivals continue to play and fill in the gaps or invite OOS competition or head somewhere else if they like the deal presented.

                            Depending on the number of teams, everyone makes the playoffs and the length just depends on the rough number. If you have 64, then you'd have 6 rounds of playoffs and need ten games. If you had ~100-128 teams you'd have 7 rounds of playoffs.

                            To be candid, most top ranked teams, rarely play 2 tough games(for them) a year before the latter playoff games.

                            Let's look at the finalists.

                            Duncanville - Mater Dei, DeSoto, do we count SOC?
                            Northshore - Westfiled, Atascocita
                            Westlake - None (just kidding Lake Travis guys )
                            Guyer - Atascocita, Allen. do we count Ryan?

                            SOC and Ryan were some of DV and Guyer’s closest games of the year not counting losses.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by jbell73986 View Post


                              SOC and Ryan were some of DV and Guyer’s closest games of the year not counting losses.


                              Yep. Duncanville lead 42-13, before SOC scored 2x, bringing the final to 42-25 and Ryan gave Guyer a close game 14-7.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by BandidoNB View Post
                                why would we completely revamp a popular playoff system for the satisfaction of a handful of school that don’t want to deal with blowout games in the regional rounds of the playoffs. The fact that most games are blowouts basically means that the majority of teams are at the same level. And I can’t imagine very many teams that would want to compete on a junior league. What if everyone opts in? Then your back where we started? What a blow to a community’s pride to opt out. Again, from the point of views of a low tier community.
                                I think Bandido summarizes the main hurdle I instantly saw....the lower tier communities would likely tier even lower.

                                Now, I agree with you....what benefit is there really of Spring Westfield playing Aldine every year to the tune of 66-0?!?!? Wouldn't Westfield be better off playing better teams...and Aldine playing lower teams that only beat them 28-7?!? Sure...but the amount of opting-up, opting-down would just turn into a bureaucratic nightmare for the UIL.

                                Plus, are we really sure that Aledo would want to opt up to 6A and compete there....or are they perfectly happy to stay down in 5ADII for the time being? I know which route gives them a better chance for state championships....and I would imagine that's important to them.

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